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Old 08-06-2018, 14:41   #31
Cumbredx
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6/8 WINB Reception Naples, FL

https://twitter.com/SWWINB/status/1005088642249969664
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Old 08-06-2018, 16:46   #32
AF4MP
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WINB 15670 kHz reception near Atlanta, Georgia, USA

Very pleasantly surprised to receive and decode a little of WINB this morning!

Heard an announcement by the Unity Bible Church and a WINB station ID.

Interesting that they are running Mode B at 5kHz with 64-QAM. The received audio sounded quite good with an audio bandwidth that showed as 4 kHz.

I momentarily switched receivers and on my Kenwood R-1000 the S-meter was S9+10 dB! Max SNR 15.47 dB (see attachment 1).

Unusual short skip propagation on this frequency to Pennsylvania.

Station Screen ID shown in attachment 2.
Attached Images
File Type: png 15670-180608-1423-1530-Zyg.png (33.1 KB, 74 views)
File Type: png WINB Screen.PNG (9.4 KB, 75 views)
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Old 08-06-2018, 16:53   #33
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WINB System Evaluation Screen

Here is the Dream System Evaluation screen for the WINB transmission.

The transmitted spectral shape looks strange, maybe explaining the sporadic audio decoding, that given the strength of the signal should have been much better.
Attached Images
File Type: png WINB Eval.PNG (41.1 KB, 161 views)
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Old 08-06-2018, 17:52   #34
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WINB Transmitted Bandwidth

I'm slow today, but why does the evaluation screen show that the Mode/Bandwidth is B and 5 kHz, yet the spectral bandwidth is 10 kHz?
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Old 08-06-2018, 20:13   #35
AF4MP
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WINB Bandwidth (Continued)

According to the DRM Consortiums "Tech Books":

The current channel widths for radio broadcasting below 30 MHz are 9 kHz and 10 kHz. The DRM system is designed to be used:

within these nominal bandwidths, in order to satisfy the current planning situation;
within half these bandwidths (4,5 kHz or 5 kHz) in order to allow for simulcast with analogue AM signals;

In other words you can't have 5 kHz DRM transmission by itself without the special situation of the simulcast accompanying AM analog signal. Therefore someone probably pushed the wrong button on the DRM content server, and half the signal that has been transmitted is correct and the other half is noise (see attachment) causing all kinds of problems!
Attached Images
File Type: png 5Khz BW.png (11.2 KB, 80 views)
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Old 09-06-2018, 01:05   #36
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Quote:
half the signal that has been transmitted is correct and the other half is noise (see attachment) causing all kinds of problems!
Maybe the other non-DRM part is some kind of digital mode(MFSK, PSK....) akin to the VOA Radiogram?
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Any kind of audio drop-out is worse than any kind of low quality audio: No audio, No log report.

My Rx location: GuangXi Province @ E10636′ N2355′
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Old 09-06-2018, 07:35   #37
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Maybe the other non-DRM part is some kind of digital mode(MFSK, PSK....) akin to the VOA Radiogram?

Yes I decoded all Week Shortwave Radiogram, you can sea to this french Forum my login is PANDORE88 :

http://www.passion-swl.com/t6256-shortwave-radiogram
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Old 09-06-2018, 07:40   #38
MARCEL
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I receive WINB QSL for this DRM test, is very nice :

https://nsa39.casimages.com/img/2018...3420474762.jpg
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Old 09-06-2018, 14:02   #39
AF4MP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zfyoung
Maybe the other non-DRM part is some kind of digital mode(MFSK, PSK....) akin to the VOA Radiogram?

Even if it were, simulcast is not recommended for Shortwave!

According to the EBU Technical Specification ETSI TS 102 509 V1.1.1 (2006-05)

Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM); Single Channel Simulcast (SCS)

"Due to the fact that multipath propagation via the ionosphere is a typical characteristic of radio channels in HF broadcasting, the use of SCS is recommended only for LF and MF bands with mainly ground wave propagation"


The other concern here would be the receiver IF filtering.
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Old 09-06-2018, 23:28   #40
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Question WINB Datcasting - Latency Arbitrage?

I continue to be very slow on the uptake, and yet zfyoung always makes good sense.

I decided to peruse the FCC transmitter application files. What first caught my attention was the emission designator 10K00G9W - that meant some kind of data transmission - other than just DRM.

So I start going through the public FCC WINB files and notice that connected to their new Amplifier Systems, Inc. linear amplifier is a Datacasting Modulator! This modulator is fed by the DRM OFDM and a separate data signal.

Now isn't that special!

I guess that WINB wants to get onto the "Latency Arbitrage" phenomenon where money can be made by trying to beat the financial trading information time that goes over a normal overseas fiber optic cable. The rationale being that electromagnetic waves travel slower through glass than through the ionosphere.

If that is true, and I am only speculating, then it will be interesting to see if the data simulcast with DRM will be successful. Particularly since it is not recommended for the hf bands.
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Old 10-06-2018, 01:05   #41
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WINB Datacasting continued..

So unless someone can come up with another plausible explanation the signal bandwidth will remain as 10 kHz wide per the FCC filing but the components of that spectrum will be equally divided into Datacasting and DRM as shown in the attachment.

With the DRM signal bandwidth staying at 5 kHz.

Now datacasting may not necessarily be financial data it could be something like weather information for ships in the North Atlantic...
Attached Images
File Type: png Datacasting.png (11.0 KB, 78 views)
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Old 11-06-2018, 13:36   #42
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WINB Reception in Northern Spain

There was no signal at 1130 z, this morning, at my location near Atlanta, but as predicted by VOACAP the transmission was being received in Northern Spain.

The KiwiSDR receiver auto timed-out after one hour of use.

The received log for the hour is shown in Attachment 1, and the Dream received system evaluation is shown in Attachment 2.

As expected, the signal drops in strength as propagation moves eastward.

What was not expected was that the Datacasting portion of the signal showing higher amplitudes spikes and spilling outside the receiver's passband and spreading beyond the allowable 10 kHz bandwidth of the combo signal!
Attached Images
File Type: png 15670-180611-1136-1254-Zyg.png (42.3 KB, 62 views)
File Type: png WINB Spain Eval.png (47.5 KB, 66 views)
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Last edited by AF4MP : 11-06-2018 at 13:38. Reason: added "this morning"
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Old 11-06-2018, 14:15   #43
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I have very litle DRM signal at 11H15 Z to 11H25 Z signal is back.
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Old 11-06-2018, 16:44   #44
AF4MP
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WINB Simulcast Datacast/DRM Signal

The first Attachment shows the WINB combo signal spectrum and waterfall as received on the KiwiSDR receiver in northern Spain.

The picture size has been constrained by the file size limitation imposed by this forum. However, the out-of-limit spectral content can be seen to the left of the main signal.

Earlier today, here in the Atlanta area, the first sign of the transmitted signal could be seen as shown in Attachment 2. Notice that only the Datacasting part of the signal is clearly visible and yet the DRM part cannot be seen.
Attached Images
File Type: png SDR Spain Spectrum8.png (94.9 KB, 61 views)
File Type: png WINB no DRM.PNG (11.8 KB, 61 views)
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Old 11-06-2018, 17:45   #45
AF4MP
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WINB 15670 kHz reception near Atlanta, Georgia, USA

Today's reception report - 0.45% audio decoded, 13.61 dB max SNR.

Hardly any audio decoding which is not surprising.

According to VOACAP there should be a big empty skip zone surrounding the transmitter site. The antenna that WINB lists with HFCC is higher in the air then the one that is described on their web page.

That means that there is a higher vertical component to the radiated signal which will allow some reception closer in.

As for the datacast signal, it probably does not need the same high level of signal that DRM does for decoding the data. So whoever was receiving the datacast might be very happy.
Attached Images
File Type: png 15670-180611-1218-1701-Zyg.png (32.9 KB, 65 views)
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